But perhaps our dilemma is that we’ve pressed a good metaphor too far. All metaphors eventually break down. I think the substitutionary atonement metaphor breaks down when we use it to define God’s character.

So as we deconstruct and rebuild, I wonder if we have an opportunity to interweave scripture in a way that we end up with a new model that is closer to the truth? Of course we run the risk of our 19th century brothers and sisters…there is some truth in the substitution theory and perhaps they were doing their best to find a model that worked with what they knew. To me it appears they tried to take scripture as literally as possible and to force a ’single answer’. And hopefully we have learned something from their efforts.

With that said, are there any good online resources where all scripture associated with atonement have been collected, studied, and conglomerated? Other than your blog, I’ve found lots of material on the theories themselves, but very little of… here’s all the scripture, here’s lots of commentary…what works from each of these models?

On the other hand, I’ve been rereading the bible with “the message’ translation recenlty and am starting to find lots of new stuff for myself…so maybe that’s the point, anyway…ie we all have the Word and Spirit and in a ‘Luther’ kind of way need to do this for ourselves, eh?

On the other hand, I have no concerns about standing on shoulders of giants:)

In my mind, sin is sin is sin…we all fall short. We either “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” or we don’t. We’ve talked about the teaching model that I gravitate towards… we’re either walking towards the gate or away from it… but we always have the last second opportunity to walk on through (as the thief on the cross).

Of course Jesus said that blaspheming the Holy Spirit was the only unpardonable sin, but that doesn’t seem to be the fatal sin addressed in 1John, right?

“For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I’m not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is “fatal,” leading to eternal death), we ask for God’s help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I’m not urging you to pray about that. Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal.

18-21We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin.”

I guess I’ve read this 100 times before and didn’t understand it…frankly, it’s still confusing considering the other scripture referenced above.

But does appear there is a difference is fatal and non-fatal sin so thanks for getting my eyes opened to look for it.